Curse

Antitorgo · Jun 02, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dsk4r3

Also, and I hate to be an elitist but they dont have 15k armor, seriously question whether they know what they are doing. Almost everyone has 15k, it shows that you have enough understanding of basic game mechanics to raise a little bit of money.

Hmm... yeah that is elitist. My tank I made specifically for the Deep and didn't really bother to get him 15k armor (although I love my dwarven axe so go figure). Problem is I have 6 chars I play in the deep and getting 15k armor for all of them is pricey.

I usually look for other "regulars" that I know and we get the team rolling from there. Like I said though -- It has been hard lately because a lot of people have been burned lately, so even with a group of regulars trying to fill those last slots can be real hit-or-miss if you aren't running the cookie cutter team build.

Lotrfish · Jun 02, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dsk4r3

Also, and I hate to be an elitist but they dont have 15k armor, seriously question whether they know what they are doing. Almost everyone has 15k, it shows that you have enough understanding of basic game mechanics to raise a little bit of money.

Wow, not true at all. Some people don't like the look of 15k armors. I much prefer regular sunspear for my female derv over any of the 15k armors. Same for my assassin, I like my 1.5k Kurzick over any 15k. I also prefer to have many, many armor pieces of different rune/insignia combinations for all the different builds I use. Now, tell me you can afford 20+ pieces of 15k armor for 6+ characters.

Mai · Jun 02, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dsk4r3

there are a lot of inexperienced people in the deep (cant speak for urgoz). This is fine, I'm all for helping people. The problem is that they want to pass it off like they're xp, and dont take advice. I've done about 14 successful HM runs out of 16 total, so I've been pretty lucky. Here's what I do to weed out the inxp.

Ask everyone to ping their builds. Look for stupid stuff that shows that they don't know the build, they just guess or saved some other build out of chat. Things like the bip taking 2 condition removal skills, or the warriors not taking stances.

Skills = Skill, sort of. If you get a real stupid answer like a monk saying 'sorry, I don't have healing seed', its probably time to find a new group. If you've done it before, you have the skills, period. The same goes for groups that are totally cool with that.

Look for the equipment. If the warriors dont have icy weapons of foritude, gg. Also, and I hate to be an elitist but they dont have 15k armor, seriously question whether they know what they are doing. Almost everyone has 15k, it shows that you have enough understanding of basic game mechanics to raise a little bit of money.

The teleporter room... Every time I enter the deep I mentally thank the level designer for this insidiously simple devie. Its so easy. 134134134222. If you've done the deep before, you can decipher this even without an ordered list. 2 warriors and 3 eles vying to get into the same room = time to leave.

Maintain a list. Take a sheet of paper and divide it into two columns, label them 'good' and 'bad' whenever someone is bad, or generally an ass in a tophat, put them on the bad list with a little note and don't group with them before.

Like i said, i'm by no means an elitist, but if people want to play the 'im xp, ive beaten hm before' game and waste my time, then i'm going to be a little miffed.

BS your whole post was literally oozing with elitist dribble. 15k armor = understanding of GW mechanics? Far from it, I don't know about you but I've met many players who have bought 15k armor and have no clue on how to play that class.

Nemo the Capitalist · Jun 02, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

way too many NOOBS INDEED ...i have a limited lfie and done at least 200 deep runs and a few urgoz ...i hate nobos and ragers why i dotn do deep much now..unless i know persone as a veteran in deeep...the elite stick together not with unreliable pugs.

Nemo the Capitalist · Jun 02, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

r3 is an idiot ive had pple n noob kc armor who played way better than 15 k armor or FoW...shows he's an idiot..just like me

vaxmor · Jun 03, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dsk4r3

Almost everyone has 15k, it shows that you have enough understanding of basic game mechanics to raise a little bit of money.

this post delivers!

15k armour set = understanding of game mechanix!

This amuses me.

The Great Al · Jun 03, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dsk4r3

there are a lot of inexperienced people in the deep (cant speak for urgoz). This is fine, I'm all for helping people. The problem is that they want to pass it off like they're xp, and dont take advice. I've done about 14 successful HM runs out of 16 total, so I've been pretty lucky. Here's what I do to weed out the inxp.

Ask everyone to ping their builds. Look for stupid stuff that shows that they don't know the build, they just guess or saved some other build out of chat. Things like the bip taking 2 condition removal skills, or the warriors not taking stances.

Skills = Skill, sort of. If you get a real stupid answer like a monk saying 'sorry, I don't have healing seed', its probably time to find a new group. If you've done it before, you have the skills, period. The same goes for groups that are totally cool with that.

Look for the equipment. If the warriors dont have icy weapons of foritude, gg. Also, and I hate to be an elitist but they dont have 15k armor, seriously question whether they know what they are doing. Almost everyone has 15k, it shows that you have enough understanding of basic game mechanics to raise a little bit of money.

The teleporter room... Every time I enter the deep I mentally thank the level designer for this insidiously simple devie. Its so easy. 134134134222. If you've done the deep before, you can decipher this even without an ordered list. 2 warriors and 3 eles vying to get into the same room = time to leave.

Maintain a list. Take a sheet of paper and divide it into two columns, label them 'good' and 'bad' whenever someone is bad, or generally an ass in a tophat, put them on the bad list with a little note and don't group with them before.

Like i said, i'm by no means an elitist, but if people want to play the 'im xp, ive beaten hm before' game and waste my time, then i'm going to be a little miffed. Hard mode deep is not the place to learn the basics of guild wars.

I'm in the process of typing up a little guide.. there is a guide on wiki but its a little out of date concerning the new NF skills and minor tweaks like that, so i'll just include whats become relevant.

This is mostly unnecessary, and parts of it are just nonsense. If you have a total PUG, from what I have seen, it is rare that more than 1 or 2 people are first timers at it. However, as long as they have the right skillbar, they will be fine. Make everyone ping their bars, and if it's a good bar but obviously not right for the elite mission, have someone else from that profession explain to them what skills to take. If the bar is more or less terrible regardless of the situation, I usually just kick right then and there. As long as the newbs (not noobs) have the right skillbar, I highly doubt they'll lead to the downfall of the team....unless they are the BiP.

TheRaven · Jun 03, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

ROFL!!! No wonder I can't get into any groups. My basic max armor clearly labels me as a noob.

Let me get this straight. Someone who e-bayed fow armor is a better player than someone who decided to spend their gold on skills and titles rather than ugly armor? Get Real!!

Skuld · Jun 03, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

ROFL!!! No wonder I can't get into any groups. My basic max armor clearly labels me as a noob.

Let me get this straight. Someone who e-bayed fow armor is a better player than someone who decided to spend their gold on skills and titles rather than ugly armor? Get Real!!

Its a generalisation you dope..

-Loki- · Jun 03, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Let me get this straight. Someone who e-bayed fow armor is a better player than someone who decided to spend their gold on skills and titles rather than ugly armor? Get Real!!

At least the had the intelligence to know that not even half the skills in the game are worth having, and bought something they would get some use out of with their gold.

Skaythe · Jun 03, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Ive only ever done Urgoz once and I lasted about 10 seconds. And the only reason I dont try it again is because of all the elitists noob bashers who dont even have the time of day to help. At the end of the day everyone was a noob once and everyone had a first time at the deep and urgoz. So maybe if the noobs were given some help they wouldnt be so annoying.

TheRaven · Jun 03, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Its a generalisation you dope..

Sigh, why is every thread on this site riddled with trolls. If you really judge a player based on their armor choice, you're the dope. I went to wiki and looked at all the armors available for my profession. I then bought the one I thought looked the best. It happened to be a cheap set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

At least the had the intelligence to know that not even half the skills in the game are worth having, and bought something they would get some use out of with their gold.

Huh?? You're saying someone who spends a fortune in gold on armor that has no extra benefits is smart and someone who spends a fortune in gold on skills that have no extra benefit is dumb? In case you haven't noticed most of the gold sinks in this game are useless. People sporting the drunkard or sweet tooth titles do it because they enjoy collecting titles. I happen to want to unlock all the warrior skills on my warrior. I don't want fow armor and gold is kinda useless sitting there in storage doing nothing.

But why I am I defending my spending habits? If you want to continue to believe I'm a dumb player for buying skills instead of useless expensive armor, go ahead, but please don't try to tell me that you aren't an Elitist.

shogun avatar · Jun 03, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Back on topic. As much as i HATE topics like this (noob this, noob that), this time i somehow sympathize. Just spent 2 hours in the deep, with somehow noobish team. no big deal, i'm not a pro, everyone can have a bad day and accidently do a stupid thig or two.

But when we reached kanaxai, a few things suprised me:
- after nightmare spawn was triggered and kanaxai run back in his position, 9 out of 12 members aggroed nightmares. offcourse they all got killed, but they took some of the nightmares with them. ok, it happens. ress and again.

This time spawns were triggered (i screwed up with dolyak 2-3 times, but no biggie) and we safely got to fight the kanaxai. But then NO team member had an enchantment removal, and our necros had no idea what were spinefull shivers for.

It's not ok to flame noobs, everyone was a noob sometimes. But when i loose 2 hours just becouse some guys didn't have 5 mins to read the idiot guide on how to complete the deep, that's just....sad

Ensign · Jun 03, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Weekends are always worse. A weekday night team can usually handle Hard Mode without too much issue, but on weekends you get a lot more people without a clue that will struggle to make it through normal mode. I'm tempted to start requesting a second Minion Master for weekend Urgoz...the more players I can stick on purely mindless positions to still be effective, the better.

It's really amazing how many people fail at even the easiest of jobs. I've played with a surprising number of Fire Eles who are seemingly incapable of dealing damage to a mob, and I don't understand how that is possible. Probably 25% of the Monks I've had on my team are incapable of doing anything other than pushing Heal Party on recharge under Healer's Boon. It's really, really sad. Urgoz/Deep builds are designed to be idiot proofed, but idiots find a way...

Peace,
-CxE

Gore · Jun 04, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Thank you all for you reactions / comments. Yhea its all about the incrible canta skins and incrible Zods. But the noob factor is even worst when it come to HM. I only do HM with FLIst and sumtimes when no one is online we get PUGS.

But the owl point of this tread is new commers telling you " Ho im a Ext in this and that...and then they dont even know where to go as they enter the split at first etc in Deep.

A couple tricks...kick as soon you see a weird pinged skill bar, do not put the numbers the room are so you see as soon you enter which dosent have a clue.

Peace to the comunity

Antitorgo · Jun 04, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gore

But the owl point of this tread is new commers telling you " Ho im a Ext in this and that...

What a Hoot. *ducks*

reddswitch · Jun 04, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Elite mission, lots of elitist pricks. People get kicked for not having the latest build or ventrilo/teamspeak. As far as I can tell, old builds work just as well as the latest. How helpful vent/ts is is questionable to me if it's all strangers. Pinging your skills is no way to separate 'experienced' from 'noobs.' I saw a lot of rejections and attitude problems this weekend. Sadly it's no different from any time I do Deep. I don't do Urgoz much. Checking skillbars to see if roles are being filled is fine, that's good preparation. Helpful suggestions during gameplay always good. It's better than total silence and surprise when someone moves ahead and everyone was still opening a chest or regenerating.

There was a lot of elite thinking players just screwing up left and right as much as 'noobs.' Skillbar does not denote playing skills at all. Tanks were moving faster than group, charging in when others weren't ready, or simply just standing without purpose. Casters positioned wrongly and again idling without purpose. Elitist attitudes need to go and people need to grow up.

Shuuda · Jun 04, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

After the behaviour I saw at the last Elite mission event, I concluded that it was not worth putting up with all the immatureness just for a few fancy weapons, honestly they are insane, all of them, no teamwork, flaming, people going afk, I don't care how glowy zodiac is, nothing is worth it.

ryanryanryan0310 · Jun 04, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Weekends are always worse. A weekday night team can usually handle Hard Mode without too much issue, but on weekends you get a lot more people without a clue that will struggle to make it through normal mode. I'm tempted to start requesting a second Minion Master for weekend Urgoz...the more players I can stick on purely mindless positions to still be effective, the better.

It's really amazing how many people fail at even the easiest of jobs. I've played with a surprising number of Fire Eles who are seemingly incapable of dealing damage to a mob, and I don't understand how that is possible. Probably 25% of the Monks I've had on my team are incapable of doing anything other than pushing Heal Party on recharge under Healer's Boon. It's really, really sad. Urgoz/Deep builds are designed to be idiot proofed, but idiots find a way...

Peace,
-CxE

YES weekdays are better.

I had to take breaks this weekend from the headache's I was getting. Fire elements following me when I aggro, not having MS

(came too late to this party to see ping skills). Only one monk spamming hp while the tank aggro's in HM, of course he die's in less than 1 sec. Leroying tanks who don't know how to make a wall. Then their was this guy who said that he created all these builts.....I was like sureeeeee. Of course he couldn't heal, I think he was the biggest nub of the weekend.

Tried 8 runs this weekend only finish 1 HM. The one we finish I toke charge of the team and guided them to the finish line. For my efforts got a E.Aegis req 9 str and req 10 zodiac daggers from the end chest. This weekend = too much headache and pain.

Antitorgo · Jun 04, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Well, I think a lot of it is there are a bunch of people (like myself) who do Deep runs almost nightly. Then there are the people who have done it a few times (and some not since the recall nerfs). And then the people who haven't done it before.

The regulars do runs pretty fast and tanks will begin aggro on mobs assuming the monks are right behind them (because usually they are). However, they might have picked up a new monk who hasn't done it before.

When things start falling apart, it is suddenly each of the groups pointing fingers.
Regulars: Ugh... Noobs.
Noobs: I'm not a Noob! I've just never done the Deep before!
SomeDeep: Why aren't you guys doing X? It worked 6 months ago!
Regulars: WTF? That doesn't work anymore noob!
Noobs: I'm not a Noob! I've just never done the Deep before!
SomeDeep: You guys suck.

Or one of my favorite scenarios. It happens almost every Deep PuG:

Regulars: Unequip your staffs/wands pls.
Regular2: I'm wielding a Banana Scythe.
Regular3: I'm wielding a Zodiac Longsword and Zodiac Shield.
SomeDeep: ...
Noob: I'm wielding Kepkhet's Refuge.
Regulars: Unequip your staffs/wands pls. You'll draw chaos storms.
SomeDeep: ...
Noob: I'm wielding Kepkhet's Refuge.
Regulars: Hey SomeDeep/Noob can you unequip your staffs/wands? It will draw chaos storms in this next part.
SomeDeep: I'm wielding Exuro's Will
Noob: I'm wielding Kepkhet's Refuge.
Regulars: Well, screw it. I'm going to pull -- just stay away from the noobs.
Regular2: Hey SomeDeep, over by the fire flower.
SomeDeep: You guys suck. When I did this twice 6 months ago, we never did any of this.
Regulars: HP HP HP HP
Regular2: HP HP HP HP
Regular3: Well crap... I'll go rebirth him out of there.

...

Looking back at it, I have to laugh. At the time it sucks tho.

Every once in a while we get a great team together tho... Like last night we went HM with 2 tanks, 4 nukers, 1 rit, 3 monks, SS, BiP. Besides the BiP everyone was great and we breezed through it. The BiP decided he wanted the chest right be leviathan and wouldn't stop suiciding on him until he got his precious chest (which was a crappy zodiac staff BTW). We WERE going for a speed run until that point. Oh, and he didn't unequip his staff...